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 SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?

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PostSubject: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:48 pm

First of all, this is a deep tactical and strategical analysis for two pokémon, one that was forever changed by gen5 and another that is new to this generation. Since the popular smogon didn't do tiers for them, and that Serebii doesn't have any in-dept analysis for either of these pokémon, many might feel confused about them.

Mainly, this will be a comparison for a specific version of these pokémon, in other words, with a specific ability. Speed Boost Blaziken, a gen3 starter that gets a shiny new abilty from the new Dream World introduced in Gen5, and Sand Rush Excadrill, a pokémon that was introduced in Gen5, and which both of his abilties are new to Gen5.

First of all, I want to make something clear, all replies will have to be your opinion about those pokémon, and you will have to be very detailed, any hate, or replies that are directed toward other users in particular or obviously inacceptable. Also, another point of this topic is that while Sand Rush excadrill (or SR Excadrill for short) isn't banned, while SB Blaziken (short for Speed Boost Blaziken, also known as Dream World Blaziken or DW Blaziken for short) is, but personaly, I think SR Excadrill is much more powerfull, I shall explain this in this topic.

If you agree with some things I say, please reply and explain why, and if you don't agree, please reply and explain me in detail why.

First of all, here's some basic infos on the pokémon we will talk about.

Pokémon 1:

Species: Blaziken
Ability: Speed Boost
Type: Fire and Fighting
Tier: UU in Gen4, unknown for Gen5, but very likely to be OU or Uber
Base HP: 80
Base Attack: 120
Base Defence: 70
Base Special Attack: 110
Base Special Defence: 70
Base Speed: 80
Base Total: 530

Pokémon 2:

Species: Excadrill
Ability: Sand Rush
Type: Ground and Steel
Tier: Unknown, but very likely to be Uber
Base HP: 110
Base Attack: 135
Base Defence: 60
Base Special Attack: 50
Base Special Defence: 65
Base Speed: 88
Base Total: 508


---> Part one of the analysis: Speed

Well, in both cases, each of these pokémon have an ability that effects speed, so obviously, we will talk about speed. Many people say that Blaziken is very heard to outspeed due to Speed Boost. Speed boost raises your speed by one stage every turn, except the turn where Blaziken was swtiched in. If we remember that Blaziken's base speed is 80, here will be its speed over the turns
Turn one: 80
Turn two: 120
Turn three: 160
Turn four: 200
Turn five: 240
Turn six: 280
Turn seven and over: 320
Yes, this does indeed seem pretty fearsome, yet still far from being the best. It should be noted that the fastest non-legendary (which also the fastest non-uber), Ninjask, has the base speed of 160, twice the one of Blaziken, AND, it has Speed Boost as its ability as well. Now, lets look at Excadrill. Its speed is 88, a little tiny bit more than Blaziken's 80. But then, lets look at its ability. Sand Rush allows it to double its base speed, and that is not a stage, so it could use stage builders as well, making its base speed as high as 176. If a speed Boost Blaziken would want to outspeed this pokémon under a sandstorm, it would need to be able to stay on the field at least FOUR turns before having the slightest chances of moving first. Of course, Blaziken could use priorities, but unfortunately, Blaziken doesn't have much interesting priority moves. Yes, some would say Blaziken could use Flame Charge, but with Speed Boost, Flame Charge becomes simply worthless, and Excadrill could simply counter it with Bulldoze.

So for the speed, Excadrill wins


---> Part two, Defence and HP

Now, lets look at the defence. Both Blaziken and Excadrill are considered as unfortunately fragile pokémon, however, which one is the "bulkiest"? Well, lets first look at the base Stats. Blaziken is superior with 70 in both Def and Spdef, however, Excadrill's defence is 60, and SpDef is 65, so he aint realy that far behind. Now though, we could look at the base HP. Blaziken's base HP is 80, which is a respectable yet not very impressive amount, while Excadrill has the much more impressive 110 HP, making it the 28th pokémon with the highest base HP, along with 9 other pokémon with this HP, including Regigas, AND, it has more HP than Lugia, Mewtwo, Ho-Oh, Rayquaza, Conkeldurr, Suicune and many other.. That's starting to get a little freaking high now don't you think? And now lets look at the typing for defence. Blaziken is Fire/Fighting, a good ofensive type, but a worthless defensive one. With 6 resistances, no imunities, except for burns that is, and a weakness to four types, Blaziken aint realy what you could call a defensive backbone, while Excadrill gets 9 resistances, and two imunities, along with an imunity to sandstorms and earthquakes, for the same amount of resistances than Blaziken, its obviously superior.

So for the defensive part, with its imense health and great amount of resistances and multiple imunities, Excadrill easily wins over Blaziken.


--- > Par three, Ofensive stats and stat increasing moves

Well first of all, some may argue that Blaziken has a much superior Sp.Atk than Exca, but honestly, who the hell uses SpAtk Blaziken? And its not to mention Blaziken has more interesting physical moves, so fo r this we will forget about Sp.Atk. First of all, Blaziken starts with a high attack stat of 120, pretty damn good of you ask me, but then, it just turns out Excadrill's stat is 135, even superior than Blaziken's. Yes, some of you might say that Blaziken can use Hone Claws and Swords Dance, but oh, surprise! Excadrill has them too! And its not to mention that Excadrill will get STAB on the powerful, popular and effective Earthquake. Yes, Blaziken gets the even more powerful High-Jump Quick, but it should be remembered that EQ is 100% accurate, while HJ quick fails 1/10 times, and if you happen to miss, or that the oponent protects, you've just lost 50% of your maximum health from recoil! Congratulations! This is an obvious con for Blaziken. Sure, Blaziken got other powerful moves, like Flare Blitz and Brave Bird, but those are all recoil moves, and when you use a fragile pokémon like Blaziken, recoil is the last thing you want to have. So Excadrill is then again superior


---> Final score


Blaziken: 0 Excadrill: 3



So far, SR Excadrill owns SB Blaziken on Speed, Defence and ofence, in other words, everything, so my opinion is that it is extremely superior, so if we ban SB Blaziken, SR Excadrill goes to banland with it, that would sound logical to me


Please send your opinion in replies and be VERY detailed and explain everything, stats, moves, types, everything you add there makes your opinion more detailed and credible
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PostSubject: Re: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:59 pm

I think there are a couple key differences here. There is the minor point that sandstorm must be up for this to work, and with the popularity of ninetails and politoed, this is not as constant as it was in 4th gen. Plus, the speed boost ability will always activate, not just in sandstorm. Two, though excadrill has some nice resistances it is weak to the most common priority type: fighting. With most teams carrying either vacuum wave or mach punch, it is more easily downed where blaziken would have more of a chance to survive. Three, SR was the main ability given to excadrill, unlike SB blaziken. Is whimsicot banned because of prankster? no. It is simply a natural ability that excadrill should be able to use. On these grounds, i disagree that SR excadrill should be uber.
However, i agree that excadrill is a superior sweeping choice to SB blaziken. you make some good points in that regard.
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PostSubject: Re: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:03 pm

Mewtwo007 wrote:
I think there are a couple key differences here. There is the minor point that sandstorm must be up for this to work, and with the popularity of ninetails and politoed, this is not as constant as it was in 4th gen. Plus, the speed boost ability will always activate, not just in sandstorm. Two, though excadrill has some nice resistances it is weak to the most common priority type: fighting. With most teams carrying either vacuum wave or mach punch, it is more easily downed where blaziken would have more of a chance to survive. Three, SR was the main ability given to excadrill, unlike SB blaziken. Is whimsicot banned because of prankster? no. It is simply a natural ability that excadrill should be able to use. On these grounds, i disagree that SR excadrill should be uber.
However, i agree that excadrill is a superior sweeping choice to SB blaziken. you make some good points in that regard.

Mhm, yes, but in cases of a sandstorm team with sand stream it makes it an immediate threat, and switching in while its on the field is plain suicide, while Blaziken can be easily destroyed by switching to a ghost type, resulting in a catastrophic recoil from high-jump kick. I just find it unfair that Blaziken gets banned before smogon releases anything while Excadrill isn't while being a superior sweeper
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PostSubject: Re: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:48 pm

tho with all this said excadrill does have many advatages but blaziken can learn first strike moves and blaziken are morely found with focus sash's so in the end it could just be a double knock out since fighting moves are super effective if a blaziken has the right items as well as type adv isnt everything it mainly comes down to how a trainor uses there pokemon to best show there abilitys to triumph because is something is better on paper there are other things that can happen to swing a battle towards a trainors way
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PostSubject: Re: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:52 pm

Revolution wrote:
tho with all this said excadrill does have many advatages but blaziken can learn first strike moves and blaziken are morely found with focus sash's so in the end it could just be a double knock out since fighting moves are super effective if a blaziken has the right items as well as type adv isnt everything it mainly comes down to how a trainor uses there pokemon to best show there abilitys to triumph because is something is better on paper there are other things that can happen to swing a battle towards a trainors way

Well I'd say its a pretty good way to put it, it would be fair to put them as equals, though now according to the site's rules sb blaziken is banned while exca aint so its like we're forced to admit that Blaziken is superior, which is kinda annoying if you ask me
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PostSubject: Re: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:57 pm

in a one on one fight it is superior because excadrill has to work with a team to be at its greatest point unlike blaziken that mainly fights with no help from other pokemon. but yet it all just comes down to stratagies that a trainor makes out of there whole team of 6 pokemon
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PostSubject: Re: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:23 pm

MacsterStudios wrote:
Mewtwo007 wrote:
I think there are a couple key differences here. There is the minor point that sandstorm must be up for this to work, and with the popularity of ninetails and politoed, this is not as constant as it was in 4th gen. Plus, the speed boost ability will always activate, not just in sandstorm. Two, though excadrill has some nice resistances it is weak to the most common priority type: fighting. With most teams carrying either vacuum wave or mach punch, it is more easily downed where blaziken would have more of a chance to survive. Three, SR was the main ability given to excadrill, unlike SB blaziken. Is whimsicot banned because of prankster? no. It is simply a natural ability that excadrill should be able to use. On these grounds, i disagree that SR excadrill should be uber.
However, i agree that excadrill is a superior sweeping choice to SB blaziken. you make some good points in that regard.

Mhm, yes, but in cases of a sandstorm team with sand stream it makes it an immediate threat, and switching in while its on the field is plain suicide, while Blaziken can be easily destroyed by switching to a ghost type, resulting in a catastrophic recoil from high-jump kick. I just find it unfair that Blaziken gets banned before smogon releases anything while Excadrill isn't while being a superior sweeper

Just because you think sr excadrill is better doesn't mean that everyone, namely the smogon guys, thinks so. I think sb blaziken will be banished to the uber tier along with many other pokemon completely changed by the ability (like shadow tag Shandera). Also, reiterating my previous point, blaziken can be used without SB wereas excadrill naturally gets sand rush. This difference will keep Excadrill OU and Blaziken uber.
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PostSubject: blazeken rules excadrill drools   Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:43 pm

BLAZEKEN rocks while excadrill just put on its socks geek Exclamation Exclamation
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PostSubject: Re: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:44 pm

Pikachu5858 wrote:
BLAZEKEN rocks while excadrill just put on its socks geek Exclamation Exclamation

.... and that was constructive?
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PostSubject: Blazeken   Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:11 am

Blazeken will still kick excadrill's you no what Cool lol!
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PostSubject: Re: SB Blaziken VS SR Excadrill: who's the strongest?   Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:15 am

Pikachu5858 wrote:
Blazeken will still kick excadrill's you no what Cool lol!

actualy... no... if you read it you'd see its the otherwise most likely
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